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	<title>Comments on: Did You Know That Some People in Washington Are Trying to Take The Tax Benefits Away From Your 401k Plan?</title>
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		<title>By: Tom</title>
		<link>http://genxfinance.com/2008/10/16/did-you-know-that-some-people-in-washington-are-trying-to-take-the-tax-benefits-away-from-your-401k-plan/#comment-94592</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Nov 2008 18:12:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://genxfinance.com/2008/10/16/did-you-know-that-some-people-in-washington-are-trying-to-take-the-tax-benefits-away-from-your-401k-plan/#comment-94592</guid>
		<description>Anon --

I think if you listen to both talk radio and the news you will be barely informed enough to vote.  With your table of 4 your missing some risk.   1) social security  yes its political, but its also inflation risk. 3) Bond Market has just as must volatility risk as the stock market.  It too has inflation risk.  4) Yes it has inflation risk and political risk.  Your 401k has political risk.   Correct we are not Argentina, but they all thought their private pensions were safe from the hands of government.  

Details would be the key to this plan.   
1) Would the 5% savings tax be based on gross, after tax or income tax?
2) Would it be extracted from you pay check pretax?
3) Would I still pay this savings tax on passive income?
4) Would I pay this savings tax on SS distributions and Roth IRAs?  
5) Would the GSA (government sponsored annuity) start paying at 60, 65, 70, 75, 80 or based on your life expectancy.   
6)Would it be distributable in a lump sum?  
7)Would you be able to heir it to a spouse or child? Or would it die with you?  
8) Could you be means tested out of the annuity?  Just like you will be with SS.    

These are just some of the question off the top of my head.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anon &#8211;</p>
<p>I think if you listen to both talk radio and the news you will be barely informed enough to vote.  With your table of 4 your missing some risk.   1) social security  yes its political, but its also inflation risk. 3) Bond Market has just as must volatility risk as the stock market.  It too has inflation risk.  4) Yes it has inflation risk and political risk.  Your 401k has political risk.   Correct we are not Argentina, but they all thought their private pensions were safe from the hands of government.  </p>
<p>Details would be the key to this plan.<br />
1) Would the 5% savings tax be based on gross, after tax or income tax?<br />
2) Would it be extracted from you pay check pretax?<br />
3) Would I still pay this savings tax on passive income?<br />
4) Would I pay this savings tax on SS distributions and Roth IRAs?<br />
5) Would the GSA (government sponsored annuity) start paying at 60, 65, 70, 75, 80 or based on your life expectancy.<br />
6)Would it be distributable in a lump sum?<br />
7)Would you be able to heir it to a spouse or child? Or would it die with you?<br />
 <img src='http://genxfinance.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_cool.gif' alt='8)' class='wp-smiley' /> Could you be means tested out of the annuity?  Just like you will be with SS.    </p>
<p>These are just some of the question off the top of my head.</p>
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		<title>By: anon</title>
		<link>http://genxfinance.com/2008/10/16/did-you-know-that-some-people-in-washington-are-trying-to-take-the-tax-benefits-away-from-your-401k-plan/#comment-94543</link>
		<dc:creator>anon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Nov 2008 03:46:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://genxfinance.com/2008/10/16/did-you-know-that-some-people-in-washington-are-trying-to-take-the-tax-benefits-away-from-your-401k-plan/#comment-94543</guid>
		<description>Ugh.  My apologies for the sentiment, but reading these comments almost makes me wonder who&#039;s actually following the news, vs parroting talk radio.

Just to pick one:
&lt;i&gt;Wow, this has got to be one of the worst proposals for the average taxpayer in recent history. This defeats teh purpose of a 401(k). &lt;/i&gt;


First, it isn&#039;t a bill, it was testimony.  There is nothing to &quot;pass.&quot;

Second, do you know how well the &quot;average&quot; 401k investor does?  I&#039;m talking actual return, after 2% fund expense ratios, 401k plan fees (do you even know what yours are?  It&#039;s difficult info to get), the buy high and sell low plan, and the extended use of the &quot;stable value&quot; funds?  Hint: it&#039;s less than you&#039;d expect, some would do better in bonds.

Third, what is the purpose of the 401k?  Congress created the tax-deferred plan (actually converted it from a package tailored to corporate executives) for retirement savings to supplement social security.  The tax deferment is the carrot to get you to save and not be a burden on society later.

I&#039;d be just as happy if congress put this plan in place and erased the 401k tax deferment.  If you&#039;re smart, you&#039;re already using index funds in your 401k, they are already relatively tax efficient.  And assuming it would work like a pension or annuity, this plan would be a great way to diversify risk.

You could diversify out to handle (major) types of risk:  
1) social security -  political risk 
2) stock market - volatility risk 
3) bond market - deflation risk
4) govt sponsored annuity - inflation risk

Without this, I&#039;d have to buy into an inflation-adjusted immediate annuity when I retire to cover bare bones living expenses - but then I&#039;d run the risk of having the insurance company blow up because of bad management.

Like I said above, all this assumes that the government lets private parties run the funds  (albeit with strict requirements).  Otherwise, I&#039;d have political risk in two legs of the stool.

Anyway people, please think!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ugh.  My apologies for the sentiment, but reading these comments almost makes me wonder who&#8217;s actually following the news, vs parroting talk radio.</p>
<p>Just to pick one:<br />
<i>Wow, this has got to be one of the worst proposals for the average taxpayer in recent history. This defeats teh purpose of a 401(k). </i></p>
<p>First, it isn&#8217;t a bill, it was testimony.  There is nothing to &#8220;pass.&#8221;</p>
<p>Second, do you know how well the &#8220;average&#8221; 401k investor does?  I&#8217;m talking actual return, after 2% fund expense ratios, 401k plan fees (do you even know what yours are?  It&#8217;s difficult info to get), the buy high and sell low plan, and the extended use of the &#8220;stable value&#8221; funds?  Hint: it&#8217;s less than you&#8217;d expect, some would do better in bonds.</p>
<p>Third, what is the purpose of the 401k?  Congress created the tax-deferred plan (actually converted it from a package tailored to corporate executives) for retirement savings to supplement social security.  The tax deferment is the carrot to get you to save and not be a burden on society later.</p>
<p>I&#8217;d be just as happy if congress put this plan in place and erased the 401k tax deferment.  If you&#8217;re smart, you&#8217;re already using index funds in your 401k, they are already relatively tax efficient.  And assuming it would work like a pension or annuity, this plan would be a great way to diversify risk.</p>
<p>You could diversify out to handle (major) types of risk:<br />
1) social security &#8211;  political risk<br />
2) stock market &#8211; volatility risk<br />
3) bond market &#8211; deflation risk<br />
4) govt sponsored annuity &#8211; inflation risk</p>
<p>Without this, I&#8217;d have to buy into an inflation-adjusted immediate annuity when I retire to cover bare bones living expenses &#8211; but then I&#8217;d run the risk of having the insurance company blow up because of bad management.</p>
<p>Like I said above, all this assumes that the government lets private parties run the funds  (albeit with strict requirements).  Otherwise, I&#8217;d have political risk in two legs of the stool.</p>
<p>Anyway people, please think!</p>
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		<title>By: Tom</title>
		<link>http://genxfinance.com/2008/10/16/did-you-know-that-some-people-in-washington-are-trying-to-take-the-tax-benefits-away-from-your-401k-plan/#comment-93182</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Nov 2008 23:15:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://genxfinance.com/2008/10/16/did-you-know-that-some-people-in-washington-are-trying-to-take-the-tax-benefits-away-from-your-401k-plan/#comment-93182</guid>
		<description>Jim, it all depends on who is on the supreme court and how the constitution can be pushed.  I doubt this will occur, but a constitutional convention would be a disaster!!  In between the ** is where I disagree with president elect Obama.

From his 2001 transcript:
http://www.foxnews.com/urgent_queue/#50041ecb,2008-10-27

but the supreme court never ventured into the issues of redistribution of wealth and sort of basic issues of political and economic justice in this society and to that extent as radical as people try to characterize the warren court it wasnt that radical 40;30 it didnt break free from the essential constraints that were placed by the founding fathers in the constituion at least as it has been interpreted and the warren court interpreted it generally in the same way **that the constitution is a document of negative liberties 40:43 says what the states cant do to you says what the federal govt cant do to you but it doesnt say what the federal govt or state govt must do on your behalf** and that hasnt shifted and i think one of the tragedies of the civil rights movement was that 41:01 the civil rights movement became so court focused i think there was a tendency to lose track of the political and organizing activities 41:12 on the ground that are able to bring about the coalitions of power through which you bring about redistributive change 41:20 and in some ways we still suffer from that</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jim, it all depends on who is on the supreme court and how the constitution can be pushed.  I doubt this will occur, but a constitutional convention would be a disaster!!  In between the ** is where I disagree with president elect Obama.</p>
<p>From his 2001 transcript:<br />
<a href="http://www.foxnews.com/urgent_queue/#50041ecb,2008-10-27" rel="nofollow">http://www.foxnews.com/urgent_queue/#50041ecb,2008-10-27</a></p>
<p>but the supreme court never ventured into the issues of redistribution of wealth and sort of basic issues of political and economic justice in this society and to that extent as radical as people try to characterize the warren court it wasnt that radical 40;30 it didnt break free from the essential constraints that were placed by the founding fathers in the constituion at least as it has been interpreted and the warren court interpreted it generally in the same way **that the constitution is a document of negative liberties 40:43 says what the states cant do to you says what the federal govt cant do to you but it doesnt say what the federal govt or state govt must do on your behalf** and that hasnt shifted and i think one of the tragedies of the civil rights movement was that 41:01 the civil rights movement became so court focused i think there was a tendency to lose track of the political and organizing activities 41:12 on the ground that are able to bring about the coalitions of power through which you bring about redistributive change 41:20 and in some ways we still suffer from that</p>
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		<title>By: Charlene</title>
		<link>http://genxfinance.com/2008/10/16/did-you-know-that-some-people-in-washington-are-trying-to-take-the-tax-benefits-away-from-your-401k-plan/#comment-93171</link>
		<dc:creator>Charlene</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Nov 2008 20:55:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://genxfinance.com/2008/10/16/did-you-know-that-some-people-in-washington-are-trying-to-take-the-tax-benefits-away-from-your-401k-plan/#comment-93171</guid>
		<description>onother sign freedom is an illusion!welcom to socialism!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>onother sign freedom is an illusion!welcom to socialism!</p>
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		<title>By: deborah self</title>
		<link>http://genxfinance.com/2008/10/16/did-you-know-that-some-people-in-washington-are-trying-to-take-the-tax-benefits-away-from-your-401k-plan/#comment-91980</link>
		<dc:creator>deborah self</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Oct 2008 15:59:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://genxfinance.com/2008/10/16/did-you-know-that-some-people-in-washington-are-trying-to-take-the-tax-benefits-away-from-your-401k-plan/#comment-91980</guid>
		<description>OVER MY DEAD BODY!! THE GOVT. HAS NO BUSINESS IN MY 401K. I WILL SHOW IN D.C. AND ASK THESE OUT OF TOUCH POLITICIANS  WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU THINKING!!! IT IS MY MONEY, I SAVED IT, DONT TOUCH IT!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OVER MY DEAD BODY!! THE GOVT. HAS NO BUSINESS IN MY 401K. I WILL SHOW IN D.C. AND ASK THESE OUT OF TOUCH POLITICIANS  WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU THINKING!!! IT IS MY MONEY, I SAVED IT, DONT TOUCH IT!!</p>
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		<title>By: Tom</title>
		<link>http://genxfinance.com/2008/10/16/did-you-know-that-some-people-in-washington-are-trying-to-take-the-tax-benefits-away-from-your-401k-plan/#comment-91847</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Oct 2008 22:45:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://genxfinance.com/2008/10/16/did-you-know-that-some-people-in-washington-are-trying-to-take-the-tax-benefits-away-from-your-401k-plan/#comment-91847</guid>
		<description>Just a simple statment.   We are on the road to &quot;spreding the wealth around&quot; of the genXer.  See the beauty of this plan is that it can be spun to save people from their self destructive ways.  If I am reading this statement correctly, she is suggesting that someone could get closer to retirement saving 5% per year @3% interest rate which with compoounding would double your money in 15 years.  What are these &quot;Special bonds&quot;  Are these the &quot;save medicare&quot; bonds.  I wonder if inflation will be headline inflation which was just 2.3% while gas doubled.  This is a bad idea, unless they decided to take 5% of the 15% coming from SS tax to lay into and account that would be yours at 59 1/2.  

 &quot;Under Ms. Ghilarducci&#039;s plan, all workers would receive a $600 annual inflation-adjusted subsidy from the U.S. government but would be required to invest 5% of their pay into a guaranteed retirement account administered by the Social Security Administration. The money in turn would be invested in special government bonds that would pay 3% a year, adjusted for inflation.&quot;

Tom</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just a simple statment.   We are on the road to &#8220;spreding the wealth around&#8221; of the genXer.  See the beauty of this plan is that it can be spun to save people from their self destructive ways.  If I am reading this statement correctly, she is suggesting that someone could get closer to retirement saving 5% per year @3% interest rate which with compoounding would double your money in 15 years.  What are these &#8220;Special bonds&#8221;  Are these the &#8220;save medicare&#8221; bonds.  I wonder if inflation will be headline inflation which was just 2.3% while gas doubled.  This is a bad idea, unless they decided to take 5% of the 15% coming from SS tax to lay into and account that would be yours at 59 1/2.  </p>
<p> &#8220;Under Ms. Ghilarducci&#8217;s plan, all workers would receive a $600 annual inflation-adjusted subsidy from the U.S. government but would be required to invest 5% of their pay into a guaranteed retirement account administered by the Social Security Administration. The money in turn would be invested in special government bonds that would pay 3% a year, adjusted for inflation.&#8221;</p>
<p>Tom</p>
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		<title>By: Jim</title>
		<link>http://genxfinance.com/2008/10/16/did-you-know-that-some-people-in-washington-are-trying-to-take-the-tax-benefits-away-from-your-401k-plan/#comment-91727</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Oct 2008 19:00:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://genxfinance.com/2008/10/16/did-you-know-that-some-people-in-washington-are-trying-to-take-the-tax-benefits-away-from-your-401k-plan/#comment-91727</guid>
		<description>Supreme Court anyone?  This is completely unconstitutional.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Supreme Court anyone?  This is completely unconstitutional.</p>
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		<title>By: Ray The Money Man</title>
		<link>http://genxfinance.com/2008/10/16/did-you-know-that-some-people-in-washington-are-trying-to-take-the-tax-benefits-away-from-your-401k-plan/#comment-91723</link>
		<dc:creator>Ray The Money Man</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Oct 2008 18:41:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://genxfinance.com/2008/10/16/did-you-know-that-some-people-in-washington-are-trying-to-take-the-tax-benefits-away-from-your-401k-plan/#comment-91723</guid>
		<description>Why is it that the Beatles came to mind.....&quot;Say You Want A Revolution, Yea Yea You Know.....&quot;

Great post though!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why is it that the Beatles came to mind&#8230;..&#8221;Say You Want A Revolution, Yea Yea You Know&#8230;..&#8221;</p>
<p>Great post though!</p>
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		<title>By: Carol</title>
		<link>http://genxfinance.com/2008/10/16/did-you-know-that-some-people-in-washington-are-trying-to-take-the-tax-benefits-away-from-your-401k-plan/#comment-91665</link>
		<dc:creator>Carol</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Oct 2008 00:37:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://genxfinance.com/2008/10/16/did-you-know-that-some-people-in-washington-are-trying-to-take-the-tax-benefits-away-from-your-401k-plan/#comment-91665</guid>
		<description>I do believe if we end up with a super majority with Democrats with no checks and balances we will be in big mess with these kind of policies.  I wish I had the option to go ahead and pay taxes on my 401k now.  It would probably be less than when I would need it for retirement.  My dad gets so upset every year when he has to pay on his because he is taxed higher now than when he actually earned the money.  And yes, they are looking at this seriously.  I believe they would be waking a sleeping giant with these kind of ideas that they want to make reality.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I do believe if we end up with a super majority with Democrats with no checks and balances we will be in big mess with these kind of policies.  I wish I had the option to go ahead and pay taxes on my 401k now.  It would probably be less than when I would need it for retirement.  My dad gets so upset every year when he has to pay on his because he is taxed higher now than when he actually earned the money.  And yes, they are looking at this seriously.  I believe they would be waking a sleeping giant with these kind of ideas that they want to make reality.</p>
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		<title>By: John</title>
		<link>http://genxfinance.com/2008/10/16/did-you-know-that-some-people-in-washington-are-trying-to-take-the-tax-benefits-away-from-your-401k-plan/#comment-91544</link>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Oct 2008 21:53:30 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>if the democrats win in house and senate this guy Mcdermit is going to push hard for this</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>if the democrats win in house and senate this guy Mcdermit is going to push hard for this</p>
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