How to Roll Over Your 401(k) When You Leave or Lose Your Job – The 401k Rollover
Posted on Thu, 15th January, 2009 by Jeremy (95) Comments
The 401(k) Rollover Explained
Are you planning to, or have you recently left or lost your job where you had a 401(k)? The good news is that since these accounts are tied to your employer, once you cut your ties with that employer, you’re generally entitled to do what you wish with those funds. Unfortunately, a lot of people take unnecessary losses and penalties by withdrawing the funds. This can set your retirement back years, and tens of thousands of dollars. So, the best option is to opt for a 401(k) rollover.
The 401(k) rollover is ideal because it allows you to transfer your existing retirement account into another retirement account without being subject to unnecessary taxes or withdrawal penalties. Remember, retirement accounts like a 401(k) are funded with pre-tax dollars, and grow tax-deferred. That means if you take a premature distribution, the IRS is going to stick you with taxes on all of that money, and also apply an additional 10% penalty if you withdraw the money prior to age 59 1/2. This is a pretty raw deal if you don’t need that money for a dire emergency, yet so many people will take the penalty simply because they don’t know how to do a rollover.
Your Rollover Options
The first decision you need to make when it comes to rolling over your 401(k) is where you want to roll the money to. There are three primary options that I’ll discuss here and provide some of the benefits and drawbacks of each.
Rollover Into New Employer’s 401(k)
If you find new employment and they also offer a retirement plan such as a 401(k) or 403(b), in most cases they will allow rollovers into your new account. But is this a good idea?
Pros: The benefit of rolling into your new employer’s 401(k) is that it doesn’t matter how much money you have since there are generally no investment minimums on the fund options. If your rollover isn’t that much, you may find that you don’t have enough money to properly diversify your money with a particular mutual fund company. In some cases, you need a minimum investment of $3,000 just to invest in a single mutual or index fund at a fund company. If your 401(k) balance is low, say $5,000, it will be harder to diversify that money than if you were to move it into the new 401(k) where you could spread the money out regardless of how much you have to invest.
Cons: Aside from that primary benefit, there are also plenty of drawbacks. First, is that you’re losing a lot of flexibility. Remember, these are employer-sponsored accounts, so as long as you’re an active employee, you’re bound to that plan and its rules. This means you’ll be stuck with whatever investment choices they offer, and will not have access to your funds again unless you want to take a loan (if it’s allowed) or you terminate employment. In addition, a lot of 401(k) plans have relatively high fees. This is especially true for smaller employers. You could find that you’re paying on average 1% or more for each investment when you could easily find a comparable investment outside of the plan for half that.
Rollover Into a Brokerage IRA
Another common option is to roll over your 401(k) into a brokerage IRA account. This can be done at almost any financial institution, but most often people flock to the discount brokers where trades have low or even no commission.
Pros: Brokerage accounts provide the ultimate flexibility. In a 401(k) you’re typically bound to just mutual or index funds. This is great for most people, but there are a lot of other investment options out there. The biggest benefit in a brokerage account is being able to take advantage of Exchange Traded Funds, or ETFs. With thousands to choose from, low expenses, and no investment minimums since they trade like stocks, these can be an attractive investment vehicle for a retirement account. Not only that, but with a brokerage account you can buy individual stocks, mutual funds, individual bonds, and in many cases, even things like options and CDs. So, if ultimate flexibility is what you’re looking for, a brokerage IRA is going to provide it.
Cons: Even though there are many great benefits with this option, there are obviously going to be some drawbacks as well — the biggest being cost. Unlike investing in most mutual funds that just have a built in expense ratio, with a brokerage account you’re going to be charged a fee each time you place a trade with most brokers. And if you trade an ETF, you’re also dealing with recurring expenses built into the fund on top of the trade commission. Also, some brokers will charge a transaction fee to place a mutual fund trade that you otherwise wouldn’t have inside a 401(k) or if you had an account directly with the fund company. The good news is that you can eliminate most of these fees by opening a brokerage IRA with a free or discount broker such as Zecco or TradeKing.
Rollover Into a Mutual Fund Company IRA
The third main option for rolling over your 401(k) is to roll it directly into an IRA held at a mutual fund company. Popular fund companies include Vanguard, Fidelity, T. Rowe Price, and so on.
Pros: Rolling directly to a fund company will typically be the cheapest way to invest in their funds. There are no commissions, and in most cases, no account fees if you meet some basic requirements. It can also be helpful to stick with one provider so it’s easier to keep track of your investments.
Cons: If flexibility is what you’re after, this may not be your best option. For one, you’re basically tied to this fund company’s offerings. While most fund companies will have plenty of options to satisfy most investors, if you want to dabble in individual stocks, ETFs and so on, you’ll more than likely need to then open a separate account with a brokerage to do this. In addition, you have investment minimums to contend with. All fund companies are different, but most require that you have anywhere between $500 and $3,000 to invest in a single fund before you can buy any shares. For smaller accounts, this might mean being unable to invest anything, or only buy one fund until you save up more money to invest in another.
Your Rollover Step-by-Step
So, you’ve decided that you’re going to do your retirement savings a favor and roll over your 401(k), but where do you get started? Don’t let the process intimidate you. Sure, there may be some complicated looking forms to fill out and it might mean that you’re dealing with your life savings, but it isn’t hard if you know the steps involved.
1. Check Rollover Eligibility With Your Old 401(k) Provider
Before you do anything, check with your old provider. You want to make sure there won’t be any unexpected snags or fees and make sure that you’re showing up as a terminated employee. They can’t release the funds unless you’re terminated, and I’ve often seen cases where your employer doesn’t notify the plan provider, and you’re still flagged as an active employee in the system. Then when you try to do the rollover, it doesn’t go through, you’re not often told why, and it is up to you to make the contacts to get that resolved. So, save yourself some time and make sure you are cleared to move the money and that there are no unexpected penalties, fees, or restrictions.
2. Obtain Rollover Forms From Old Provider
If you’re already on the phone with the old provider checking to make sure you are free to move the money, you can also use this time to ask for the required paperwork. In most cases, you will need to submit paper forms in order to initiate a rollover, so you’ll want to tell them that you intend to roll the money over, and that you want the forms needed. They will either send them to you in the mail, or you may be able to request them via email or by fax. There are some providers that will only require a rollover request form from your new plan, and if that is the case, simply move on to step 3.
3. See What is Needed for the New Provider
Next, you’ll want to check with your new account provider to see what they require in order to accept the rollover. Whether it’s a new 401(k), brokerage account, or mutual fund company, each will have their own unique, but similar process. In some cases, you may be required to open up an account first, and then submit a rollover form. In other cases, the account creation and subsequent rollover may all be part of the same form or process. Either way, determine how they require it to be done, and make sure you have all of the appropriate information from the previous provider to complete everything.
4. Complete the Forms Properly
This is an important step, especially if you’re doing it on your own. All of these forms may have a lot of information, and to make sure things go as smoothly as possible, you’ll want to make sure you fill it out correctly. For instance, if your rollover form from your previous carrier asks what type of distribution this is, you want to be sure to choose a Direct Rollover. This ensures that the funds are made payable to, and go directly to the new account. This often requires information as to how to make out the check or where to wire the money. This is information that you’d need to obtain from the new provider.
If you have questions at this stage, call the company and ask for help. Whether it’s questions with your outgoing provider or incoming, don’t assume and just fill it out the best you can. Sometimes just an unchecked check box, or an overlooked signature can kick the forms back and delay the process for weeks. In the worst situations, you aren’t even informed there is a problem and it can drag this process out forever. So, save yourself some trouble and make a quick call if you have questions.
5. Submitting the Forms and Follow-up
Once completed, it’s time to submit the forms. Whether it’s forms for both providers or just the new one, you’ll need to mail or fax them to the appropriate location. But your job doesn’t stop there. You need to stay on top of this process. There is a nasty habit of outgoing providers to make it difficult for people to pull their money out. If something is wrong with one of the forms, or they never receive anything, you aren’t always going to get a call or letter right away alerting you. They don’t want to see those funds leave, so they aren’t going to be quick to tell you something that will speed that up. So it’s up to you to follow up on your own in most cases. If you haven’t received your check, or the funds haven’t been deposited after about two weeks, I’d make a few calls and make sure all parties received the appropriate paperwork and that they are in good order. If not, you may need to have them send the forms back so you can correct the error, or simply provide some information over the phone. Either way, don’t assume that everything is going smoothly behind the scenes if you don’t hear anything.
In many cases, you will receive a check for the full amount of the rollover in the mail. It is then up to you to make the deposit into the new account. Make sure the check is made out properly, and submit it for deposit with any required deposit forms. If you previously called and they said a check has already been issued and mailed, keep an eye out for it. Again, you want to be on top of things if it doesn’t show up so that you can have a stop issued on the check and a new one sent. And don’t hang on to the check once you receive it. Get it deposited as soon as possible and out of your hands so that you don’t forget about it, it gets lost, etc.
Making the Right Choice
As you can see, there are many different options available to you when it’s time to do a rollover. There isn’t a right or wrong answer, as each method has its own pros and cons. So, don’t become paralyzed by the choices or process, because the worst thing you can do is withdraw the money unnecessarily. Obviously, there may be some financial emergencies that may dictate a rollover isn’t the best course of action, but for most people, this will go a long way in helping you achieve your retirement goals.



This is a tip to the readers: Just make sure you roll it over directly! Don’t take the cash and then “say” you are going to do it later! You will have automatically have 25% withheld and it you don’t get it in the new IRA or 401(k) within a certain time frame, you get hit with the 10% penalty plus the taxes.
Great post and perfect timing for me. I will be moving from one hospital to another nonprofit organization and both of these offer 403(b)s. Does this information apply to rolling over 403(b) accounts as well?
This column is fundamentally flawed in one crucial fact: the rule for “early” distribution of 401(k) funds is different than that for IRAs.
According to IRS Pub. 575, Pension and Annuity Income (among others including Tax Topic 558), a worker who retires or leaves a job after the year in which he or she turns 55 may take non-penalized withdrawal of 401(k) funds right away under a handful of circumstances, mainly having to do with making the withdrawals in “substantially equal” amounts based upon life expectancy. There is no such provision for doing so with IRA funds.
Obviously this changes the equation for making a rollover investment with one’s 401(k) funds. If an employee is fortunate enough to be able to retire at age 56-57-58 or early 59, having performed a rollover of 401(k) funds will prevent the retiree from having un-penalized access to those funds. Leaving the balance in the 401(k) will allow for lawful withdrawal, and a rollover to the IRA of one’s choice may be done after 59 1/2 to allow more precise control of one’s money.
Note, too that a retiree may make un-penalized access to his or her Roth IRA *contribution* funds (and only for a Roth) at any age.
Valerie, for the most part, the 403b process will be the same with a few exceptions. Some 403b plans are going to be more or less treated like a 401k, while some are actually going to be annuities. If your old 403b is an annuity, you have to be careful that you don’t move the money too soon if there are possible surrender charges.
Also, some of the wording and legal jargon is a little different, as it may not be called a direct rollover, but instead, a transfer if you move it to another 403b, etc.
Either way, the process is the same. You just want to check with the old provider first to make sure you are able to move the funds, and are out of any possible surrender period. Then get the required paperwork on both ends to make it happen.
As a follow-up to my post above, see section “Tax On Early Distributions,” subsection “Additional exceptions for qualified retirement plans:”
The tax does not apply to distributions that are:
* From a qualified retirement plan (other than an IRA) after your separation from service in or after the year you reached age 55 (age 50 for qualified public safety employees),
That’s a good point, Andrew, but unless you are fairly close to retirement and know for sure that you’re going to want to tap into that money via systematic equal distributions, it isn’t much of an issue.
I agree that in situations like that where you’re close to retiring and you may be retiring pre-59.5 and need to begin accessing those funds, the different 401k rules can change the decision of rolling into an IRA or not. But since this site primarily addresses issues for the 30-something crowd, the drawbacks of leaving money in a 401k for that reason alone probably isn’t worth it for most people. But still worth considering if you’re really planning ahead.
Thank you for this. This is exactly what I need, a step by step guide cause this is my situation. I had a Simple IRA from a small company and now need to roll it over into a Traditional IRA and really don’t know anything about the procedure.
always enjoy step by step guides for financial matters. Don’t need this now, but know where to look if I do!
My former employer closed out my 401(k) and sent me a check so I wasn’t able to do a rollover like you describe in the post. I put the check in my Roth IRA which should keep me from having to pay any penalties. The check will count as income though if I understand correctly.
It is important to realize that the former employer is not legal required to process the rollover request in any specified time frame. It can take as little as 2 weeks to process or as much as a couple of months. A major problem that occurs is when there is a matching program by the former employer. Most employers do not match matching contributions continuously, so they will not take the time and effort to calculate all the final figures just so one person can get their withdrawal. This can lead to long delays especially if the matching contribution takes place only once a year as opposed to quarterly.
I have been laid off from a company (in dec 08) that provided a profit sharing plan. I am over 55, still unemployed and am torn between a rollover-transfer or taking the distribution. Due to family medical issues a small infusion of cash would help. ( this is a small account less than 30k)
i got laid off recently and have a 401k with my former employer but my new employer will not make any contributions until after 6 months? I am interested in putting that into a brokerage roth ira in the form of a cd for no more than 6 months to at least make a little bit rather than lose a little to alot with the stock market but to be able to roll that over in my new employers 401k after that 6-month cd matures. can i do that? Would there be any fees for that? what is the best way to go in doing that?
Just as important as rolling over a 401(k) to an IRA is in reappraising the investment decisions made while filling up a 401(k) in the first place. After rolling it over, you invariably have access to a wider number of funds, and should be vigilant about dumping the funds that were on offer through the company if they are not as attractive as other options in the rollover pool.
Has anyone tried this out yet? Seems like a great way to potentially make a lot of money without much upfront risk or labor – invest $1000 or whatever and potentially make a lot:
http://www.dnafxtrading.com
This is a fantastic and very thorough post. One more thing to consider is which brokerage firm to choose when you roll over your money. There are many discount firms to choose from if you choose to roll to am IRA. Some of them have fees and higher commissions than others.
Great article. A lot of people I know who are getting laid off will appreciate this. I’ll pass it along for you.
rolling over is easy – just make sure the money is never in your hands so you don’t pay extra and have a brokerage firm do it for you that will give you the best rates. Here is a list of Top 10 Online Brokerages you can use. http://www.gobankingrates.com/investments/brokerage/top-10-online-brokerages/
I have kind of an embarrassing question- is there a time limit for when you can do the rollover?
I left a job four years ago and never did anything with the 401k – first I was a stay-at-home mom with nowhere to put it, then I was a full-time-employee and mom of a toddler with no time to figure it out.
Can I still roll the funds over into my new 401k? I haven’t touched it since I left the job – never really felt the need, but after this year the balance of investments is totally off.
Rosa, not an embarrassing question at all! As far as the IRS is concerned, there are no time requirements in which you have to move your old 401k. They only say that if you do a distribution or indirect rollover, you only have 60 days to deposit the funds into another qualified account to avoid it being classified as a distribution.
Otherwise, if you’ve had money sitting in an old account for years and decide you want to roll it over now, you should be able to just fine. The only time you typically run into time constraints is when your employer says they will do a mandatory distribution if the balance is below a certain amount (usually something like $1,000 or $5,000). In that case they may give you 60 or 90 days to make that happen.
I have an old 401k that I would like to rollover, I’m 26 years old, I would like to know what would be suited for me in the long run?
Thanks, Jeremy! I’m putting this on my to-do list for this week.
There’s no issue with a minimum account but I’m a little worried about my old employer going belly-up (and the drop in the stock market has me at 50% in bonds, which is Not Okay, and I can’t change it unless I roll it over.)
When leaving a job can you take out partial funds and roll the rest of the money over into an IRA?
i have 50 days ago rec’d a 401k distribution. i was going to keep it for a downpayment on a house and pay the penalty. but i read i could put it in an IRA and as a new homeowner, withdraw the money penatly free when i buy the house. Is this correct and am i running out of time>
Jwesenbe, you in some cases you can use proceeds from an IRA for a home purchase and escape the 10% penalty. You won’t be able to get out of the taxes, but a qualified purchase could avoid that extra 10%.
Some requirements are that it must be considered a first-time home purchase. That doesn’t mean it has to be the very first home you’ve ever bought, but you or your spouse if married can not have owned a primary residence in the two years prior.
In addition, you’re only allowed to use $10,000 towards the home down payment exemption.
What is your recourse if after several attempts to rollover your 401(k), all forms have been completed, and your former employer does not follow through?
I have the same problem as Sara. I was laid off 4 years ago and left a 401k. I filled out the paperwork a month ago to have it rolled over into my IRA at Scottrade and am still waiting for it to happen. Apparently the CFO at the old job, who was listed as a trustee on the plan, has also left the company and this has caused a delay. If according to your article we are “generally entitled to do what you wish with those funds”, what is our recourse?
The best advice is to keep hounding the previous employer, or even better, the investment company that operates the plan. Even if the old trustee or plan administrator has left, someone has to be able to sign off on these.
If you’ve completed the paperwork a number of times and still can’t get access to your money, it’s time to file a complaint. You can file a complaint directly online with FINRA http://www.finra.org/Investors/ProtectYourself/p118628
Make sure you have as much information as necessary and are able to provide as much detail as you can.
Jwesenbe,
You are correct. But certain rules apply regarding rolling your 401k to an IRA and using the money to purchase property. Please see our FAQs(Frequently Asked Questions)for an outline of the rules:
http://www.rollovercenter.com/FAQs.htm
Good Luck!
There’s also the option now to rollover a 401k directly into a Roth IRA instead of just the traditional one. I guess that’s generally covered in the mutual fund IRA and brokerage fund IRA options you listed, but just thought I’d mention it as subcategories in those. I’m still trying to figure out which benefits me the most, but I’m leaning Roth. In 2010, there won’t be any income limits on who can do this, too
Is it possible to roll-over a partial amount of your 401k ? For example : Say I have $200k and I want to roll-over $125k of it ~ Will I only then bw tax on the $125K ? which would be approx. $31,250 to the US Government @ 25% / Also , would I acquire the 10% penalty on the whole amount or just the $125k I withdrew? Very confused at this point !
Sorry, I meant to say then I would only be taxed on the $75k I withdrew ?
Which would be approx. $18,750 in taxes.
John, some plans will indeed allow you to do partial roll overs. Other plans will say it’s all or nothing. So you’d want to check with your plan and see what they allow.
If you were to do a partial rollover you are only taxed on money that is cashed out and withdrawn. So in your example if you have $200k and roll $125k into another retirement account and cash out $75k, you’d only pay taxes and the early withdrawal penalty on the $75k portion. Since the $125 was rolled over into a qualified account that remains tax deferred and incurs no penalty.
If your plan does not allow partial rollovers and you want to do that, your best course of action would be to roll it into an IRA anyway, and then from the IRA you have more flexibility in regards to taking withdrawals for whatever amount you want, whenever you want.
I find it to be so sad that in discussing the rollover of so many dollars of so many people, the one option that is totally ignored here is that of the Fixed Equity Indexed Annuity IRA. Something that for the long term saver eliminates entirely the down side risk with a guarentee. Makes available participation in the upside movement of whatever mix of index stratagies the employee wishes.
As with anything else nothing is free, so there are surrender charges in the early years, ie; 5, 7 or 10 years. But unlike the other options, how much it would cost you in what years is stated in advance. As opposed to “well, it depends on the value of the funds at the time”. Good luck with that.
For someone wanting to take full charge of of there savings themselves, using there vast accumulated investment knowledge, go for it, I would opt for the Mutual Fund option. But for me, all I know is my values did not dip one red cent in September of 2008, and as the market goes up now, I am participating in that growth as well.
I do not make lite of others experiences or judgement, but to simply ignore what I found to be so helpful I just can’t keep my mouth shut anymore.
Yes, make sure that you never get a check or if you do that you do not cash it. That can be a taxable event.
i was wondering if there was a number that i could call for someone to help me out with trying to rollover my 401k?i have been gone away from that job for quite a few years now and had forgotten about it.now im ready to take steps to move it
Scottie,
You can give us a call at 800-434-401k.
-RolloverCenter.com
Great site.
I am over 70 and taking mandatory withdrawals from my IRA.
I am working again and have a new 401K but will be stopping work soon.
Am I required to immediately roll my 401K into my IRA so that it will become subject to the mandatory withdrawal?
I am 54 yrs old have about 250K in my former employers 401K-I had to retire due to a permanent disability and can no longer work, do I still have to pay all of those penalties?
John W.,
A disability is one of 7 circumstances that makes you exempt from the early withdrawal penalty.
I recently got laid off from my company whom i worked for many years. I have a 401K that i would like to roll over to an IRA. But my employer states that i have to wait 1yr before i can receive those funds? Is that correct? I have never heard of this before? Has anyone gone through this before?
Marie,
I also have an issue with my former employer. I am told by the plan adminstrator that I will need to wait 6 months to roll over my account to my IRA. This is absurd. Are there any laws on the books which states a time frame for which the former employer can hold your investment money before submitting the paperwork to transfer the funds. We are being forced to pay management fees to the old employers adminstrator when we could be putting it into a lower fees account. What is our recourse?
What are the rules if your company is purchased by other company and your plan changes. Does that allow you to rollover your 401k to anyone?
-Joe
I have a 401k with a previous employer where I stayed for only one year before being laid off. It’s only about $11,000, but I would like to roll it over into another account. The plan administrator has informed me that because my employer does not pay matching until next year, I can’t do anything with this money (withdrawal, rollover, etc.) until May or June of next year when they pay the employer match. Is this correct? I’m I bound by this because of the way my previous employer has structured their plan?
I am 43 years old and just recently lost my job. I’m currently near completion of my Bachelor’s degree. I’ve been told I could roll my 401k to an IRA and then use the funds for educational purposes. Is this true? My husband and I are leaning more in this direction. Your thoughts and/or comments would be most welcome.
I was laid off Aug 1,2008. I requested a 401K direct rollover within a month. The investment account transfered the entire balance of my 401K into my IRA account. A year later my former employer contacted me stating that they overpaid my 401K because they did not caculated the vested amount of the company contribution. They are now requesting a refund of the amount that I was not vested. Since this was originally done as a direct rollover should the refund be handle the same way if at all? And are there any tax implications?
i left my employer on sept. 1st. I planned on leaving my 401k ($97,000) alone, but I am concerned my employer may go out of business. how would this impact me?
Steve, if your old employer goes bankrupt your funds are still safe. Those assets are protected and can’t be seized even in the event of a bankruptcy. So in terms of losing your money because the company goes under, that isn’t a concern. But depending on how and who manages the plan you could find it more difficult to access the funds if the company were to shut down. But even then, the assets are held with another company and ultimately you’d still be able to get to those assets just fine.
Steve,
The “blackout” period that Jeremy is talking about is complicated in the case of bankruptcy. Normal “notice periods”, usually 30 days, as outlined in Sarbanes-Oxley, do not apply in bankruptcies. Dept of Labor guidelines are not enforceable if a company is under bankruptcy protection. Thus, a blackout could start at anytime without warning. During a blackout you will be unable to direct your investments,take a distribution, or initiate a transfer or rollover. In a nutshell, you can’t do anything. Blackouts usually last 3-9 months. Jeremy is correct in saying your money will still be there, but, rolling it into an IRA might help you avoid a lot of headaches.
Many people are not aware and are not told about the options that they may have with a 401k rollover. You see Bank of America, Charles Schwab and several other large investment firms starting to really advertise for clients to utilize 401k rollovers, with one catch they are not truly self-directed because they limit what you can roll your money into. One of the main investments that is usually not spoken about is real estate.
There is the constant argument of which investment is better for your 401k rollover, land or stocks? While stocks are easy to buy and sell, easy to track, and companies are required to release information, real estate has many other advantages. The most important being that they cant make more land, Dubai excluded. The general public as a whole are more comfortable with stocks because that is what they are told to do. Stocks however can become worthless and essentially lose all of it’s value, think Bear Stearns, Lehman Brothers, or all the dot-com companies.
This is a great resource of information, I really appreciate all the comments that have been added here. I do have a problem that has not been addressed yet. I am in my mid forties & have been on permanent disability leave with montly payments only from my long term disability insurance carrier that are enough to live off of so far. (Thank God that I had paid into the plan for 20 years).
I have only $ 120,000 in my 401K due to late starting & high risk taking. As I said, so far I can survive financially on my payments & wife’s income as well, barely. Ongoing medical costs might change this position in the semi-near future. I converted both of my 401K & my deferred compensation 401K plan to the lowest risk mutual fund type that the plan offered in order to preserve what was left in July of 2008.
My question is what to do with those funds now. I am not sure if leaving them in the plan (Fidelity) is flexible enough to take some out if needed in the future, or if rolling it into a Roth IRA is better for my situation. Also, obviously I missed the recent gains in the market…. I know…Big Mistake…., is it worth considering putting into higher risk/high gains distribution for a little while, or should it be left alone?? I know no one has a crystal ball, but there must be some conventional wisdom in this growing popular situation.
Thank you for any & all input,
Tom
I left a former employer 3 years ago. I rolled over my 401k at that time. Recently I received an additional distribution of a small amount that was apparently left in my account. Currently I contribute to a 403B. Can I consider a portion of my monthly contributions now as if it replaces the rollover of this latest distribution?
I left my former employer in September. But they accidentally paid me for the month of October adding to my simple IRA account that the former employer set up for me. I didn’t know this and rolled over that month’s contribution to my present retirement plan. Now my former employer wants the money back. What exactly should I do to give them back their money in the most legal fashion?
My mother wants to retire. She will be 70 1/2 in Apr. ‘10. At her current employer, where she’s been for 20+ years, she has a 401(k). What is the best option to extend her savings the longest and at best tax savings? Should she roll over to Mutual Fund IRA or leave in 401(k)? Since she’s past 59 1/2 there would be no penalty for withdrawals. Can she withdraw small amount per month from 401(k) and only that amount is taxed? Or is it wiser to roll over upon retirement in IRA and then take the Required Minimum Distribution at 70 1/2? Which provides the best tax shelter? She will be living on this savings plus social security. It is important that the savings in the 401 be protected and stretched to last as long as possible.
Debra,
I recommend ordering a 401k Rollover Planning package from RolloverCenter.com and reading the part about how to avoid outliving your IRA. It is really good free information that helped me with the same problem.
I will be leaving my employer after 20 years of service and I will have approx $100,000 of 401K monies. I am 61 so no penalties. However, my wife and I are considering buying a foreclosed home in Florida (will sell this one) and making that our primary residence and both working part-time. I was going to pay for a home outright but received this advice: “Why not mortgage half of the cost of the home and pay for the other half and let the IRA partially pay for the mortgaged portion of the home?” Was this good advice?
My question surrounds chinese drywall and disabilty. Late 09 at age 54 I started having memory issues and had to retire with a diagnosis of Alzheimers disease, this year I turn 55, however I left my job 3 months before the year that I turned 55, but what certainly was not what I planned. Now that I have to move out of my house I need the money to buy another house since this is worthless and I have NO income. Now trying to get disability from social security, which unless you are close to death appears unlikely, twice now I have been rejected. I am now rolling over the money to a Fidelity account, not yet fully completed-but I need to money to buy another house. What about the 25% tax and the 10% under 59 1/2 tax, there has to be some protection for situations like this? I have about 240K and may sseem like alot, but to me it seems like a little amount since I will never work again.
Just got walloped in taxes because of a mistake made in my husbands direct deposit of his 401k. Left job 1 year ago, filled out PW with his old company to do a direct deposit of his 401k to his new company. Husband did not realise he had to fill out PW at his new company as well. Investment account states that they sent letters to old address requesting other PW which were returned. Don’t believe this as all of our mail has been forwarded. They inadvertently changed his 401k to a savings account which they left in their keeping and paid insane taxes to our prior state and government as well as penalties for early withdrawal. We just got a letter explaining this from them. Funny how that letter managed to get here. He has lost 10’s of thousands on the account. Does this seem ethical and legal to people?
As an advisor, I have always told others that rolling your 401(k) over is the best option. This shows a few different ways to do it.
The “pro” of working with a local advisor, is to come up with a well-balanced savings plan and make sure that the funds or investments which are selected will also match your goals and objectives.
When you do a rollover to an advisor, it should not be a one time thing, but the beginning of an ongoing relationship. The advisor is your partner as you approach retirement and helps with making sure you are on track to reach your goals.
Certainly there is a cost involved (a percentage of the amount invested). Think of it this way – When you eat, you could eat a meal at home or in a restaurant. When you eat in a restaurant, you know there will be a cost, but you are also paying for service and other benefits you don’t get from home. When it comes to your retirement savings, aren’t you worth it?
I believe that the majority of Rollover snafus are due to paperwork error. Before handing in your paperwork, go over it with HR to make sure it is filled out the way they want and get a verbal on when it will be processed (so it doesn’t sit on their desks for weeks.)
Also, I know that the brokerage firms have long “lists” of funds that are no fee to trade and no load— but you have to ask for it. There is no reason with all of the good no-load and index funds out there that you should have to pay a trading fee. After all, they are the custodians of your account and therefore making some bucks off of you just for choosing them. I think Schwab, Fidelity and Vanguard do a great job- just don’t get sold into their “fee” programs.
Fern Alix LaRocca CFP®
http://www.wholeheartedway.com
I have 457 funds that I wish to rollover from a position that I resigned from in 2006. However, I was hired again on a per diem basis in 2009 to this same company without restarting any contributions. The fund never was notified of my termination so I have always been listed as active – but I can verify the break in service with them. Can I rollover my funds that accumulated prior to 2006 even though I am listed as active currently having been rehired in 2009 or do I have to resign to be eligible for this rollover?
Rudy, tricky question. Since there are a lot of details that need to be covered such as your employment status as employee or contractor and eligibility for vesting periods.
I would contact the company and get it in writing whether you are eligible to rollover those funds or not before you proceed.
Good Luck!
Fern Alix LaRocca CFP®
http://www.wholeheartedway.com
Great answer! My employer will fax the deferred comp co. my previous resignation date and current hourly status. They may process the rollover with this info, I hope. I’m turning 50 and anxious to get the funds into a Prudential annuity that promises a 6% increase on the withdrawal guarantee and 10% withdrawal annual lifetime guarantee after 10 years if I do not withdraw during this time. With the current market volatily my TDAs go up & down like yo-yos so it will be good to get some consistency. Thanks again for your time and expertise!
Can I rollover my wife’s 401K into my 401K account to avoid the 25%tax and the 10% penalty.
Jim, unfortunately, no. 401(k)s and IRAs are tied to the owner and assets cannot be co-mingled. Your wife could open an IRA and then roll her 401(k) into that in order to avoid the penalties of taking a distribution.
I am 72 years old and just got laid off. Can I rollover my 401k to an IRA, even though contributions cannot be made to an IRA after age 70 1/2? If “yes”, can I rollover into an old empty IRA that I have, or should I start a new “rollover IRA”?
I am 71, and still contribute to a 401K thru my employer. I plan on working till age 75.
Will I be able to roll this over into an IRA and begin taking the RMD immediately as I will be over 75, or can I just take the money and put it into a savings account?
Terry,
That is a great question about rollovers. A “Rollover” is not considered a contribution. Anyone may rollover their 401(k) balance into an IRA without incurring taxes.
Of course, if you are older than 70 1/2, your retirement money is subject to a Required Minimum Distribution (RMD). This is based on your balance as of Dec. 31 of the previous year. The RMD will be taxed as income at your normal income tax rate.
You only need 1 IRA. You can have more, but having one keeps recordkeeping simpler. If you have an ‘old’ one, you may use it for rolling over your 401(k) proceeds.
IRAs may hold a variety of investments – stocks, bonds, mutual funds, cash, annuities. Its best to meet with an advisor to determine what blend of investments is best suited for you and what your income needs will be at retirement.
There is a free report available through my website. “The 5 Biggest Problems With 401(k) Plans – And How To Fix Them”. You may contact me for a copy.
Ellen,
You may be able to rollover your 401(k) now into an IRA if you choose. Talk with your employer. All companies are different in their policies. However it isn’t uncommon for an employee who is still working to roll over all or part of the 401(k) to an IRA if they are older than 59 1/2 (which you are).
You may want to get a report on 401(k)s – “The 5 Biggest Problems With 401(k) Plans – And How To Fix Them”. This report is free through my website.
The IRA is a great way for you to have more control and more choices for how your money should be invested. I would also recommend meeting with an advisor to determine what your income needs will be.
Dean,
Thanks so much; exactly what I need to know, and quick response.
Dean, Thank you, I will consider this. The plan administrator at work hasn’t been very helpful. How can I obtain a copy of the problems w/401K’s? Thank you again, I appreciate your help.
Hi Ellen & Terry,
Glad I was able to help. If you click on my name (in orange), it will take you to my website. Go to “Contact Me” and send me your e-mail. I will be happy to e-mail you a copy of the report. Thanks again.
My 401K has contributions in it that are post-tax as well as the normal pre-tax (or tax deferred) contributions. This happens because I continued to contribute each year even after reaching the yearly maximums for pre-tax contributions. The account statement lumps it all together though.
My question is: when I roll the 401K over to an IRA do I need to separate the pre-tax portion from the post-tax portion? When I eventually make withdrawals of the post-tax portion I should only have to pay tax on the income and capital gains and not on the original contribution (since it was taxed before going into the 401K), right? So do I need to have separate IRAs to keep these funds separate?
How I figure out what those gains are is another story. I know what I contributed post-tax, but since the statement lumps it all together I’m not sure what gains to attribute to these post-tax contributions.
Hi Ken,
You have a great question. This situation will be much more common with the Roth 401(k) option which became available to employers in 2007.
I have done rollovers for this type of situation before. It is important to keep the pre-tax and post-tax contributions seperate. Your company will need to provide you the information on which money belongs in which pile. Your company’s plan document will dictate how this post-tax money is to be treated with a distribution.
When I helped another client with this rollover, we set up an IRA. Two seperate checks were received and we invested them differently to help keep track of which money was which.
Bottom line – you need a good tax advisor to help keep it straight. You could also set up 2 IRAs, and then convert the post-tax money to a Roth. I hope this helps. Feel free to visit my website for more resources.
i just my left my current employer. I am 55 years old after before I left.I currently have $66000 in my 401k with that employer. Since I didn’t have any money, and all my bills are due, I option for distribution even though I knew it wasn’t the best of option.
My question is i received $53000 after 20% withholding, and I spent $20000 of that $53000 on my bills.Leaving me with about $30000.What will be the best course of financial action for that remaining $30000?
Remember never take possession of the money until the transaction is completed. All, the above advice is quite good. In the end if you are of Gen-X age, older or younger and maybe I am preaching to the choir. Time to get a broker, proper financial institution and tax preparation pro. All my assets are under one roof and I have a professional to do things like this, not to mention advice.
The fees I pay and time I spend in their offices is like going to the dentist or doctor or a car mechanic for a check up. In each and every case saves you money, headaches and gives you peace of mind.
I don’t know about your bills, Crownroyal, but you definitely took a hit on your 401(k) with taxes and withholding. A rollover into an IRA would have reduced your taxes (and penalty since you are under 59 1/2). If you still really needed to pay off some bills, at least the balance would have stayed in an IRA – not subject to tax. I have seen clients use part of their rollover for paying bills and debts, but its also important to consider if you are better off keeping the money in an IRA – or paying the bills.
7 Years makes some great points about the value of professional advice. Regarding your other $30,000, I’d say that I would need to know more about you situation before offering advice. Other savings? Need for income? Risk tolerance? Feel free to contact me if I can help. Consultations are free.
Would like to leave my current employer. I have invested both pretax and posttax dollars. Typically, as a shareholder, all bonus shares are post tax. My question is, I took out a loan and I understand that if we terminate employment we have to pay back the loan within 30 days. My question is, since obviously if I had the money to pay it back I wouldn’t have had to take the loan in the first place, is there a way to get around early withdrawal penalties? Can the loan be paid off with the remaining posttax share’s that the company will buy back from me or is this still considered early withdrawal and since shares were purchased post tax could I only be hit with the 10% penalty if I reduced the outstanding balance against the posttax shares instead of the ESOP/matching/pretax money?
I retired from my employer of 27 years and rolled over my 401K just last month. Am I still allowed to contribute $6000 to the IRA in 2010 or do I have to wait until 2011. I’m not clear whether the roll-over itself counts as this year’s contribution. Any clarity on this would be greatly appreciated.
I’m 73 and plan to work several more years fulltime, but would like to rollover my 401k in order to have a self directed plan. I fear that if I die, my wife, who has a disability, would have difficulty setting up annuities or other investment. If possible I’d like to have both an annuity and a self-directed IRA that I can manage and very little action would be required by my wife to begin withdrawals. Assuming that my 401k plan forbids partial rollover and I must leave my employment in order to carry this plan forward, can I then rejoin my company or another, with or without a new 401K? I can’t seem to find others with this question in my internet research thus far.
Following our recent marriage, my wife took a lump-sum distribution from her pension fund after she left her teaching job to relocate from NJ to MA. Unaware of roll-overs or the tax consequences (20% withholding tax and 10% penalty tax), she deposited the check into a regular savings account. Once I learned about this, I immediately had her put the funds into a Roth IRA, but which was not done in a timely manner (approximately 100 days). If it is possible, I would happily put the entire distribution back into the pension fund and start all over again in order to complete this the correct way through a direct rollover. Is this a possibility? Because paying all this tax was really an unnecessary mistake! Thanks.
Marshall, I am almost 100% certain that this is not possible. I am not a tax professional but I have studied this extensively and I have always read that once you put that money into you savings account, your forfeited the chance of tax deferred status and must pay the withdrawal tax penalty unless you are over 59 1/2.
Hi Marshall,
You ask a good question. I’m not a tax pro, but I am a Series 7 & 63 licensed financial advisor.
There is a “60 Day Rule” for lump sum distributions, which means that you have 60 days from the time you receive the money to put it into an IRA. Of course, you have to verify this to show that it was done in less than 60 days.
A direct rollover is certainly much easier (and less costly). You also mention that you had her put the money into a Roth IRA. You need to check on this for 2 reasons. First, in a Roth IRA, you would need to pay the taxes up front. Second, you need to make sure that the IRS isn’t looking at that Roth money as a “contribution” instead of a “rollover”.
There are 2 main types of IRAs – Traditional (pre-tax money) and Roth (post-tax money). When a rollover happens, it goes into the Tradtional which is pre tax like the 401(k) or 403(b). To convert from Traditional to Roth means paying the taxes on the amount you convert.
So by putting the money into a Roth, you would be taxes on the money. Also Roth contributions are limited to $5000 ($6000 if you are over age 50). You need to be sure that the IRS isn’t considering this a contribution.
I’ve been reading many of the questions here. There is no doubt that employers need to do a much better job of educating their staff on how to use 401(k)s. This is a big topic of my book, “Help! My 401(k) Has Fallen – And Must Get Up!”
The book will be available by late April 2010. You can also get free report “The 5 Biggest Problems With 401(k) Plans” through my website. (Just click my name.)
Thank you E.J Peiker and Dean Voelker for your excellent responses to my questions about pension funds and IRA’s. It is greatly appreciated!